"As someone long prepared for the occasion,
In full command of every plan you wrecked --
Do not choose a coward's explanation
That hides behind the cause and the effect.
The Italian slang was a lot of fun, I was familiar with most of it. Apparently I did grow up bilingual, I should thank my family! Reading this brings a smile to my face, I can't help thinking all the hysterical mispronunciations I heard throughout my life. I have to confess, I cringe when I hear the language being butchered, however I do laugh it off. So many friends pronouncing every syllable, none worse than MAN-E-COTTE. God forbid they try Gnocchi, absolutely hysterical.
These errors made me conscious at a young age of pronunciation, and I really try to make a conscious effort to hit the right syllables with the right flare. I'm comfortable with Spanish and excel at French names (I watch a lot of hockey), but my mom, I'm embarrassed. She can be pretty waspy, especially when we take out from our favorite Mexican restaurant. Gringo city! But I can't blame her, it's like dinner and a show.
Whoever speaks another language knows what I'm talking about. There's no reason to get steamed, we can laugh it off. Hey, at least they're not too embarrassed to shy away from a challenge.
I can't help but nod my head and laugh in agreement as I read what James wrote. I was thinking pretty much the same and it reminded me of how every time I go to to the pasticceria Villabate to buy something I always hear someone mess up the name of something but really off. I can't help but chuckle to myself because its something I've grown to expect - my personal observation is that sfogliatelle is the hardest one for some odd reason. A funny anecdote is that until I was probably 25 I had no idea that calamari was called calamari or rather spelled that way - in fact I always knew it growing up as "galama" and if I came to a restaurant and I order fried galama as an appetizer without looking at the menu, the waiter usually only understood me if I was in an Italian restaurant. Otherwise, I would get these odd looks or was told they didn't have anything like that ....because I never saw this "galama" on the menu and it was always a mystery to me why I could never find it but ... until one day I met up with one of my best friends for lunch and she happened to bring her 6 year old Michael, who was off from school because it was a legal holiday. As we were looking over the menus, her son started reading the appetizers out loud, "mom, what's fried c-a-l-a-m-a-r-i?" Salvatrice answers him "It's not calamari, it's galama!" and I must have mentally turned purple ... So much for being a native english speaker!
In the play "Blood Type: Ragu'" (great one-man touring play, you should try to catch it when it comes to town) one of characters played by the actor is an older Jewish woman who asks her Italian American guests if thy want "more sarell." Any idea what that could be?
It’s definitely mozzarella, or mutzadel as we say in Brooklyn. This reminded me of a funny video I saw last year. It was a funny or die skit with Kelly Ripa and her husband, Mark Consuelos, called “The Bensonhurst Spelling Bee” (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcp8rN-YqLw). In this clip, Ripa’s husband, who lived in Italy is saying/spelling the words in their proper Italian, and the guidos/guidettes on stage are spelling them in Brooklynese. It’s also got Lorraine Bracco in it as a judge, so it’s worth a watch – really hysterical.
I have seen the video Will mentions as well, and I found it to be quite funny when the words were spelled as they sounded on the bottom of the screen. The words really hit home for me because I always would be teased about how I pronounced Marinara, because I didn't want to sound like I had a speech impediment saying Mah-din-ah. I too cringe when I hear someone say mozz-er-eller, but I don't go out of my way to correct anyone's pronunciations. I find I have a similar problem pronouncing words in other languages when I eat at various cultural restaurants such as Mexican, Japanese, etc, so I am sympathetic to others as well.
I read through the Brooklynese sayings, and oh, how accurate it was. It’s almost like another language; the Italian is so badly butchered. I still use it to this day, all of those words/phrases and more. As I was reading through it, I noticed that there were a few key words that weren’t there, so here they are for anyone who is interested. “pasta fazool” (IT pasta e fagioli = pasta and beans) “vinook” (IT finocchio = fennel) “bosileego” (IT basilico = basil) “doozie botz” (IT tu sei pazzo = you’re nuts) “cackyerown” (IT chiacchierone = chatterbox) “supersodd” (IT soppressata; it’s a type of dried salami – if you get it, get the hot!) “woolia” (IT avere voglio di = to have a want/desire for; in Brooklyn you say it when you have a craving or a hankering for something specific to eat) “saviadda” (IT savoiardi; it’s a type of ladyfinger cookie) “ashpett’” (IT aspetta = wait!) “alya-ool” (IT aglio e olio = garlic and oil; it’s a mixture used as a pasta sauce) “sanda nigola” (IT Santo Nicola = St. Nicholas, aka Santa Clause) “chooch” (it means something along the lines of a fat, boorish person; I think it might come from the IT ciuccianello meaning a little donkey) “picada” (IT peccato = sin/pity; used like “it’s a shame”) “ugatz and gool” (IT un cazzo e culo = look it up on google translate; the expression in Brooklyn is used to describe someone who looks like crap, in a sickly sense)
these are priceless! I probably use ashpet way too often especially when talking to the dog because she is so impatient! I don't know but this list reminded me of a song that I listened to as a little kid, Pepino the Italian Mouse
Well I know nothing of Italian-American living. I'm sure as I read the slang, I might have butchered quite a few words, except probably for puttana. You know, you never try to learn anything valable in another language, except for the insults and curses.
I know I butchered many of the words in book, and I do find it amusing that it seems to be human nature to remember the negative things, in this case the curse words.
I found the Italian American Slang to be quite precise when it comes to the adaptation that many of these Italian words and phrases have taken over the course of several generations in America. The lombroso style experiments were really annoying though, and midway through two of them the websites stopped working. Also I felt that it was very difficult to tell personality through looking at faces. I felt it was easier to interpret current state of emotions, such as angry, upset, happy, indifferent, etc, rather than personality which is a much larger combination of factors. I think facial features don't really show personality so for me these tests were a waste of time.
The Ten Commandments of the Mob were interesting, and sort of outlined a reality that was not mentioned, but somewhat understood, in the Godfather. They add sort of a grim reality to the fact that the Mafia is still around today, and possibly more secretive than ever.
I found the Lombroso style experiment annoying. In the end I just chucked to up to perception. Each individual sees things differently, because for me personality cannot be judge solely on one picture or expression.
I found that the Italian American sang to be interesting, i am not familiar with the language so for me this was very helpful. No i have knowledge of certain words, so when if i hear someone saying one of these words or perhaps hear it in a movie, i feel comfortable knowing what it represents. The Mob's 10 commandments was also interesting. Who knew that the Mafia had such guidelines. The last part of the 10th commandment surprised me, because you have to have moral value to be inclusive. My thought is on the general concept of what it means to be moral but i would like to know what kind of morals someone in the mafia would posses.
The Lombroso experiments reminded me of this popular website http://picktheperp.com/ where people can guess who committed a certain crime based off of their mugshot. It's very interesting to see how people use their cultural biases and racial stereotypes to pin certain crimes to certain faces or certain characteristics.
I also greatly appreciated the Italian American slang and I find it very interesting to examine how every culture has their own type of slang (For example, "Spanglish") that is mixed with English, but only Italian slang is considered truly "Brooklyn".
I found the language pretty similar to Spanish and as long as I know Spanish I could understand without looking at the translation. The word "stronzo" made me laugh. I remember the episode from "Friends" where Pheebe would call someone stronzo and didn't know what it mean, but I like the word, so I was calling my friends "Stronzos". I didn't really understand the meaning of the last link. Could anyone explain, please?
Anna needs help with the meaning of "fugheddaboudit". Any volunteers? Can you go through the entire semantics (there is a great scene about it in "Donny Brasco")
"Fuhgeddaboudit" is non-rhotic Brooklynese for the term "forget about it". It's usually said as an expression of dismissal ( as in "You want me to take the G train to work everyday? Fuhgeddaboudit." or "The class starts at 6:00 AM? Fuhgeddaboudit.)
The phrase is so associated with Brooklyn that it's actually on an official sign. You can see it here: http://www.brooklyn-usa.org/pages/Signs.htm
It’s all in the context. It can be used both as a positive and a negative expression.
In one conversation between A and B, it could be used like: A – “If you want to take a class at Queens College you have to take three (pronounced tree) trains and a bus.” B – “Well that’s not too bad …” A – “But, you gotta go to Queens.” B – “Oh, fuhgeddaboudit!”
In a different conversation between A and B, it can be used like: A – “Hey, I heard you got a backstage pass to the Victoria’s Secret Fashion Show.” B – “Oh, fuhgeddaboudit!”
I tried one of the perception lab tests and unfortunately didn't get any results. A little bit disappointing, because they made you choose between 29 pairs of identical faces and then asked a bunch of questions. I was hoping for some groundbreaking insight into human perception there...
I found the Italian American slang to be very interesting and was even surprised to have heard of three basic terms. Grazia being one of them, the second one being calamari, and finally Guido. As a true calamari lover, I had no idea that the word was considered Italian, so I found this interesting. I also was interested by what you said about the word Guido. Guido was commonly used in the show Jersey Shore, and I feel like if the cast knew how racist and offensive this term is, they probably wouldn't use it.
The word itself stems from the word “guidare” – to lead or to drive – to my knowledge it’s not an offensive word in it of itself and in other cities instead of being called Guidos ItAms are called by other names such as Marios for example. The point is that by being called Guidos they are in essence standing out as if “leaders” by their choice of lifestyle and they are choosing not to assimilate into society. It is less the issue of the name and more the issue of the behaviors, yet it is embodied by the name. By allowing these shows to exist in the first place and giving a platform for this kind of lifestyle it exacerbates society’s marginalization of Italian Americans. This is aside for the fact that instead of assimilation occurring which you would think would take place by the 3rd or 4th generation, this births further marginalization in an era where assimilation is easier than ever.
I find it odd that they have all these rules to follow as in the ten commandments. These define how to maintain the structure of the Mafia. They believe and enforce the importance of treating each other with respect, however they find ways to justify murders. It just seems like double standards
treating someone with respect means 100% loyalty and the punishment for violating this trust is death - that's not really justification - it's the same on a broader scale with loyalty to a country - this is a corollary society - breaking it would be treason which is probably punishable by capital punishment
I don't think the rules justify murder. To the mob, the morality of murder (which, in our society enables our justice system) is never questioned; if its necessary, it is done. It is a matter of self-preservation. It's also important to note that these mob families arose because, as The Don put it, our society would have caged in these "great men" who followed their own codes. In their very essence they saw murder differently, and they appear to not have the same objection to murder that people in mainstream society would have.
Commandment VII states wives to be treated with respect. Was an example of that when we saw Rizzi beat his wife Connie? or when Sonny had extramarital affairs with Mancini? Commandment number IV states do not go to bars or clubs. When Michael suggested he'd meet Sollozzo in a bar or restaurant, maybe that's why they chose the restaurant. After all, there are rules/morals to follow (when you whack someone).
This is the Sicilian mafia, not the rules used in the U.S. per-say probably, plus this is a novel anyhow - Rizzi beat Connie in order to finger Sonny for Barzini - he knew that if he would beat her up then Sonny would come over to the house and this is how he was ambushed on the causeway. In this sense having a goomah doesn't mean you aren't treating your wife with respect - what she doesn't know in that respect isn't going to kill her (let's just hope my fiancé doesn't read this blog and get any bright ideas) - I think it's worse to be involved in something that can leave your wife a widow at any given time without her knowing. For example Mama Corleone was treated with respect because she knew her place, didn't ask questions yet wasn't naive. Kay was lied to because she interfered all the time and was a nuisance in that respect. Moral of the story - men don't change for women - it's always better to know the bitter truth than sweet lies - if you can't live with the ugly truth then don't marry such a man. Same with the mafia, nobody forced these men who are being whacked into it - we aren't talking about innocent civilians being killed. All these "made" men know that this is the risk they take by taking part of this lifestyle. If they want to live like this then it's their problem. This country marginalized the ItAms and this is how some of them went on to make a living - do I condone it? no. But for the U.S. to make acts such as RICO just to indite mafiosos when they placed Italians in internment camps less than 30 yrs prior and never remunerated them and nowadays the banks commit loansharking and racketeering and plenty of the things that the Mafia are accused of while they bail out banks and the Mafia gets locked up is hypocrisy, considering that "we the people" never entered a contract or became "made men" in such organizations but fell victim to many of these fraudulent business practices. Why does our taxpayer dollar have to support their jail term when it would be much more efficient for them to be knocking each other off? That's another question I never understood.
We support their jail term because I guess the police don't want innocent bystanders to get killed, they don't want their own police to become corrupted by crime (even though that happens anyway) and I think that the police viewed the Italian American mobsters as "scum" or "peasants" and wanted them arrested or eliminated.
As I read through the articles, I instantly knew I wanted to comment on the Mob's "commandments." But upon seeing Adam's comment and Lenora's response, most of my points were mentioned! I also thought it was incredibly ironic that such an emphasis was placed on respecting the wives of mobsters, or not associating with cops, but I think Lenora's distinction between the US and Sicilian mafia helps to account for the differences. When Michael was in Italy, he experienced the Sicilian "thunderbolt" - a sudden primal and overwhelming force to possess and dominate Apollonia. If such a thing was common in Sicily, demanding respect for the wives of others reinforces a dominance structure and marks the wives as property; in America, a husband's ability to beat his wife achieved the same purpose. Also, I remember reading that the police in Italy were much less organized than in the States, and so they were more easily corruptable. That being the case, it would be much more difficult in Sicily to create and maintain loyal relationships, because rival families might be able to outbribe officials and infiltrate your Family. So much the better to stay away from cops all together and not risk getting caught.
The Italian slang was a lot of fun, I was familiar with most of it. Apparently I did grow up bilingual, I should thank my family! Reading this brings a smile to my face, I can't help thinking all the hysterical mispronunciations I heard throughout my life. I have to confess, I cringe when I hear the language being butchered, however I do laugh it off. So many friends pronouncing every syllable, none worse than MAN-E-COTTE. God forbid they try Gnocchi, absolutely hysterical.
ReplyDeleteThese errors made me conscious at a young age of pronunciation, and I really try to make a conscious effort to hit the right syllables with the right flare. I'm comfortable with Spanish and excel at French names (I watch a lot of hockey), but my mom, I'm embarrassed. She can be pretty waspy, especially when we take out from our favorite Mexican restaurant. Gringo city! But I can't blame her, it's like dinner and a show.
Whoever speaks another language knows what I'm talking about. There's no reason to get steamed, we can laugh it off. Hey, at least they're not too embarrassed to shy away from a challenge.
I can't help but nod my head and laugh in agreement as I read what James wrote. I was thinking pretty much the same and it reminded me of how every time I go to to the pasticceria Villabate to buy something I always hear someone mess up the name of something but really off. I can't help but chuckle to myself because its something I've grown to expect - my personal observation is that sfogliatelle is the hardest one for some odd reason. A funny anecdote is that until I was probably 25 I had no idea that calamari was called calamari or rather spelled that way - in fact I always knew it growing up as "galama" and if I came to a restaurant and I order fried galama as an appetizer without looking at the menu, the waiter usually only understood me if I was in an Italian restaurant. Otherwise, I would get these odd looks or was told they didn't have anything like that ....because I never saw this "galama" on the menu and it was always a mystery to me why I could never find it but ... until one day I met up with one of my best friends for lunch and she happened to bring her 6 year old Michael, who was off from school because it was a legal holiday. As we were looking over the menus, her son started reading the appetizers out loud, "mom, what's fried c-a-l-a-m-a-r-i?" Salvatrice answers him "It's not calamari, it's galama!" and I must have mentally turned purple ... So much for being a native english speaker!
ReplyDeleteIn the play "Blood Type: Ragu'" (great one-man touring play, you should try to catch it when it comes to town) one of characters played by the actor is an older Jewish woman who asks her Italian American guests if thy want "more sarell." Any idea what that could be?
DeleteThis sounds like mozarell' to me!
DeleteIt’s definitely mozzarella, or mutzadel as we say in Brooklyn. This reminded me of a funny video I saw last year. It was a funny or die skit with Kelly Ripa and her husband, Mark Consuelos, called “The Bensonhurst Spelling Bee” (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcp8rN-YqLw). In this clip, Ripa’s husband, who lived in Italy is saying/spelling the words in their proper Italian, and the guidos/guidettes on stage are spelling them in Brooklynese. It’s also got Lorraine Bracco in it as a judge, so it’s worth a watch – really hysterical.
DeleteI have seen the video Will mentions as well, and I found it to be quite funny when the words were spelled as they sounded on the bottom of the screen. The words really hit home for me because I always would be teased about how I pronounced Marinara, because I didn't want to sound like I had a speech impediment saying Mah-din-ah. I too cringe when I hear someone say mozz-er-eller, but I don't go out of my way to correct anyone's pronunciations. I find I have a similar problem pronouncing words in other languages when I eat at various cultural restaurants such as Mexican, Japanese, etc, so I am sympathetic to others as well.
DeleteI read through the Brooklynese sayings, and oh, how accurate it was. It’s almost like another language; the Italian is so badly butchered. I still use it to this day, all of those words/phrases and more. As I was reading through it, I noticed that there were a few key words that weren’t there, so here they are for anyone who is interested.
ReplyDelete“pasta fazool” (IT pasta e fagioli = pasta and beans)
“vinook” (IT finocchio = fennel)
“bosileego” (IT basilico = basil)
“doozie botz” (IT tu sei pazzo = you’re nuts)
“cackyerown” (IT chiacchierone = chatterbox)
“supersodd” (IT soppressata; it’s a type of dried salami – if you get it, get the hot!)
“woolia” (IT avere voglio di = to have a want/desire for; in Brooklyn you say it when you have a craving or a hankering for something specific to eat)
“saviadda” (IT savoiardi; it’s a type of ladyfinger cookie)
“ashpett’” (IT aspetta = wait!)
“alya-ool” (IT aglio e olio = garlic and oil; it’s a mixture used as a pasta sauce)
“sanda nigola” (IT Santo Nicola = St. Nicholas, aka Santa Clause)
“chooch” (it means something along the lines of a fat, boorish person; I think it might come from the IT ciuccianello meaning a little donkey)
“picada” (IT peccato = sin/pity; used like “it’s a shame”)
“ugatz and gool” (IT un cazzo e culo = look it up on google translate; the expression in Brooklyn is used to describe someone who looks like crap, in a sickly sense)
Great additions! My Mom loves "CHOOCH!" I've been hearing that one my entire life!
DeleteThank you, Will, for the new entries. I will add them to the list with credit going where credit is due.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
Deletethese are priceless! I probably use ashpet way too often especially when talking to the dog because she is so impatient! I don't know but this list reminded me of a song that I listened to as a little kid, Pepino the Italian Mouse
Deleteone that randomly came to my head while I am cooking now is "scoolabast" - i don't know how to spell it but the thing you use to strain spaghetti with
DeleteWell I know nothing of Italian-American living. I'm sure as I read the slang, I might have butchered quite a few words, except probably for puttana. You know, you never try to learn anything valable in another language, except for the insults and curses.
ReplyDeleteI know I butchered many of the words in book, and I do find it amusing that it seems to be human nature to remember the negative things, in this case the curse words.
DeleteI found the Italian American Slang to be quite precise when it comes to the adaptation that many of these Italian words and phrases have taken over the course of several generations in America. The lombroso style experiments were really annoying though, and midway through two of them the websites stopped working. Also I felt that it was very difficult to tell personality through looking at faces. I felt it was easier to interpret current state of emotions, such as angry, upset, happy, indifferent, etc, rather than personality which is a much larger combination of factors. I think facial features don't really show personality so for me these tests were a waste of time.
ReplyDeleteThe Ten Commandments of the Mob were interesting, and sort of outlined a reality that was not mentioned, but somewhat understood, in the Godfather. They add sort of a grim reality to the fact that the Mafia is still around today, and possibly more secretive than ever.
I feel the same way about the test, i personally share the same thoughts with you as well about the concept of facial features.
DeleteI found the Lombroso style experiment annoying. In the end I just chucked to up to perception. Each individual sees things differently, because for me personality cannot be judge solely on one picture or expression.
DeleteI found that the Italian American sang to be interesting, i am not familiar with the language so for me this was very helpful. No i have knowledge of certain words, so when if i hear someone saying one of these words or perhaps hear it in a movie, i feel comfortable knowing what it represents.
ReplyDeleteThe Mob's 10 commandments was also interesting.
Who knew that the Mafia had such guidelines. The last part of the 10th commandment surprised me, because you have to have moral value to be inclusive. My thought is on the general concept of what it means to be moral but i would like to know what kind of morals someone in the mafia would posses.
The Lombroso experiments reminded me of this popular website http://picktheperp.com/ where people can guess who committed a certain crime based off of their mugshot. It's very interesting to see how people use their cultural biases and racial stereotypes to pin certain crimes to certain faces or certain characteristics.
ReplyDeleteI also greatly appreciated the Italian American slang and I find it very interesting to examine how every culture has their own type of slang (For example, "Spanglish") that is mixed with English, but only Italian slang is considered truly "Brooklyn".
I found the language pretty similar to Spanish and as long as I know Spanish I could understand without looking at the translation. The word "stronzo" made me laugh. I remember the episode from "Friends" where Pheebe would call someone stronzo and didn't know what it mean, but I like the word, so I was calling my friends "Stronzos".
ReplyDeleteI didn't really understand the meaning of the last link. Could anyone explain, please?
Anna needs help with the meaning of "fugheddaboudit". Any volunteers? Can you go through the entire semantics (there is a great scene about it in "Donny Brasco")
Delete"Fuhgeddaboudit" is non-rhotic Brooklynese for the term "forget about it". It's usually said as an expression of dismissal ( as in "You want me to take the G train to work everyday? Fuhgeddaboudit." or "The class starts at 6:00 AM? Fuhgeddaboudit.)
DeleteThe phrase is so associated with Brooklyn that it's actually on an official sign. You can see it here:
http://www.brooklyn-usa.org/pages/Signs.htm
it's like "are you happy parts of Donnie Brasco was filmed in your old neighborhood, Adam?"
Delete"oh, fugheddaboudit"
It’s all in the context. It can be used both as a positive and a negative expression.
DeleteIn one conversation between A and B, it could be used like:
A – “If you want to take a class at Queens College you have to take three (pronounced tree) trains and a bus.”
B – “Well that’s not too bad …”
A – “But, you gotta go to Queens.”
B – “Oh, fuhgeddaboudit!”
In a different conversation between A and B, it can be used like:
A – “Hey, I heard you got a backstage pass to the Victoria’s Secret Fashion Show.”
B – “Oh, fuhgeddaboudit!”
Great point Will! Here's the link to the Donnie Brasco one
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI tried one of the perception lab tests and unfortunately didn't get any results. A little bit disappointing, because they made you choose between 29 pairs of identical faces and then asked a bunch of questions. I was hoping for some groundbreaking insight into human perception there...
ReplyDeleteI thought it was only me who was unable to see my results for the perception lab tests! It seems like it would've been interesting had it worked.
DeleteI found the Italian American slang to be very interesting and was even surprised to have heard of three basic terms. Grazia being one of them, the second one being calamari, and finally Guido. As a true calamari lover, I had no idea that the word was considered Italian, so I found this interesting. I also was interested by what you said about the word Guido. Guido was commonly used in the show Jersey Shore, and I feel like if the cast knew how racist and offensive this term is, they probably wouldn't use it.
ReplyDeleteThe word itself stems from the word “guidare” – to lead or to drive – to my knowledge it’s not an offensive word in it of itself and in other cities instead of being called Guidos ItAms are called by other names such as Marios for example. The point is that by being called Guidos they are in essence standing out as if “leaders” by their choice of lifestyle and they are choosing not to assimilate into society. It is less the issue of the name and more the issue of the behaviors, yet it is embodied by the name. By allowing these shows to exist in the first place and giving a platform for this kind of lifestyle it exacerbates society’s marginalization of Italian Americans. This is aside for the fact that instead of assimilation occurring which you would think would take place by the 3rd or 4th generation, this births further marginalization in an era where assimilation is easier than ever.
DeleteI have to admit I was not too familiar with some of the slang on the website but I recognize some of Will's slang words.
ReplyDeleteI find it odd that they have all these rules to follow as in the ten commandments. These define how to maintain the structure of the Mafia. They believe and enforce the importance of treating each other with respect, however they find ways to justify murders. It just seems like double standards
ReplyDeletetreating someone with respect means 100% loyalty and the punishment for violating this trust is death - that's not really justification - it's the same on a broader scale with loyalty to a country - this is a corollary society - breaking it would be treason which is probably punishable by capital punishment
DeleteI don't think the rules justify murder. To the mob, the morality of murder (which, in our society enables our justice system) is never questioned; if its necessary, it is done. It is a matter of self-preservation. It's also important to note that these mob families arose because, as The Don put it, our society would have caged in these "great men" who followed their own codes. In their very essence they saw murder differently, and they appear to not have the same objection to murder that people in mainstream society would have.
DeleteCommandment VII states wives to be treated with respect. Was an example of that when we saw Rizzi beat his wife Connie? or when Sonny had extramarital affairs with Mancini? Commandment number IV states do not go to bars or clubs. When Michael suggested he'd meet Sollozzo in a bar or restaurant, maybe that's why they chose the restaurant. After all, there are rules/morals to follow (when you whack someone).
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteThis is the Sicilian mafia, not the rules used in the U.S. per-say probably, plus this is a novel anyhow - Rizzi beat Connie in order to finger Sonny for Barzini - he knew that if he would beat her up then Sonny would come over to the house and this is how he was ambushed on the causeway. In this sense having a goomah doesn't mean you aren't treating your wife with respect - what she doesn't know in that respect isn't going to kill her (let's just hope my fiancé doesn't read this blog and get any bright ideas) - I think it's worse to be involved in something that can leave your wife a widow at any given time without her knowing. For example Mama Corleone was treated with respect because she knew her place, didn't ask questions yet wasn't naive. Kay was lied to because she interfered all the time and was a nuisance in that respect. Moral of the story - men don't change for women - it's always better to know the bitter truth than sweet lies - if you can't live with the ugly truth then don't marry such a man. Same with the mafia, nobody forced these men who are being whacked into it - we aren't talking about innocent civilians being killed. All these "made" men know that this is the risk they take by taking part of this lifestyle. If they want to live like this then it's their problem. This country marginalized the ItAms and this is how some of them went on to make a living - do I condone it? no. But for the U.S. to make acts such as RICO just to indite mafiosos when they placed Italians in internment camps less than 30 yrs prior and never remunerated them and nowadays the banks commit loansharking and racketeering and plenty of the things that the Mafia are accused of while they bail out banks and the Mafia gets locked up is hypocrisy, considering that "we the people" never entered a contract or became "made men" in such organizations but fell victim to many of these fraudulent business practices. Why does our taxpayer dollar have to support their jail term when it would be much more efficient for them to be knocking each other off? That's another question I never understood.
ReplyDeleteWe support their jail term because I guess the police don't want innocent bystanders to get killed, they don't want their own police to become corrupted by crime (even though that happens anyway) and I think that the police viewed the Italian American mobsters as "scum" or "peasants" and wanted them arrested or eliminated.
DeleteThat's just my guess though!
As I read through the articles, I instantly knew I wanted to comment on the Mob's "commandments." But upon seeing Adam's comment and Lenora's response, most of my points were mentioned! I also thought it was incredibly ironic that such an emphasis was placed on respecting the wives of mobsters, or not associating with cops, but I think Lenora's distinction between the US and Sicilian mafia helps to account for the differences. When Michael was in Italy, he experienced the Sicilian "thunderbolt" - a sudden primal and overwhelming force to possess and dominate Apollonia. If such a thing was common in Sicily, demanding respect for the wives of others reinforces a dominance structure and marks the wives as property; in America, a husband's ability to beat his wife achieved the same purpose. Also, I remember reading that the police in Italy were much less organized than in the States, and so they were more easily corruptable. That being the case, it would be much more difficult in Sicily to create and maintain loyal relationships, because rival families might be able to outbribe officials and infiltrate your Family. So much the better to stay away from cops all together and not risk getting caught.
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