This slideshow, the Neapolitan songs and the pseudo-sciences close the first chapter (for us) of Italian immigration.
If I had introduced the slideshow before The Italian and Son of Italy how different your perspective would have been?
Make sure you answer the question.
IN A SEPARATE PARAGRAPH: do you recommend that in the future I introduce the slideshow at the same point in the course or earlier?
Please, make an effort to be brief.
REPLY to at least one comment (and keep track of your work in the spreadsheet.)
My perspective would have been very different if this slideshow was seen prior to watching The Italian (1915) or reading Son of Italy. Prior to this course, I knew a little of the hardships ItAms had to face when they came to America, and I have heard my own family’s horror stories. It was not until I read Son of Italy that I truly realized how bad it was. I think that the book gives a fine description of what it was like for Italians to come to America. I feel that people are a bit unprepared because in the back of our heads, we knew that D’Angelo eventually became successful enough to get his book published, so we didn’t really expect his life to be as difficult as it was. If we had seen this slideshow first, it would have taken that much away from the book.
ReplyDeleteIn the future, I would recommend that the slideshow be shown after the book and the film. I feel that the book should be read first, then the film, then the slideshow. I think that in this order, the material will have the most impact and leave a lasting impression.
I completely agree with you - I think it's important not to paint a certain expectation before the book and leave a clean slate for the author. Last night I told the story about "Son of Italy" and showed the cartoons and illustrations to my future mother-in-law who is an ItAm from Sicilian descent. She had absolutely no idea about any of it and was totally shocked and horrified. Both of us could not understand why her parents or grandparents never told her any of this. It's interesting how some families have passed down the stories from generation to generation and others have not. Today however, when I was having lunch with my future father-in-law he was making a joke with my fiancé about his uncle who couldn't stand his mother-in-law and how they all lived together in this tiny railroad apartment in Brooklyn. The way he described it, I figured out that there must have been at least 20 people living in this flat yet nobody seemed to have a real issue with it that they complained to the kids. I was wondering that maybe since the ItAms were so tight-knit and families being close was a good thing it would be considered odd to complain about living together with your family - I mean wouldn't they see it as positive to at least be together when struggling in a new country?
DeleteYou are opening a window into the psyche of Italians -- and by extension ItAms. Italians have an almost frightening sense of pride and dignity. Nobody (or, at least, very few) would ever admit being humiliated and denigrated. The shame would be unbearable. This is why that generation kept silent, and did not tell anything to their own children.
Delete[BTW I am doing a lot of reading on the cultures of immigrants and, to the extent that I can observe and opine about, it seems to me Asian Indians share the same sense of terror for shame.]
It wasn't the Anglo-Saxon "I don't want to talk about it" in the name of privacy, but a conscious act of denial to protect one's psyche from the ultimate injury.
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ReplyDeleteMy persepctive would probably have remained the same. The photographs in the slide show are powerful, but I have seen some of them ( and similar images) before. Having a separate set of visual references for the conditions depicted in Son of Italy and The Italian might be helpful for people who were not familiar with how difficult that life was.
ReplyDeleteHaving the slideshow available first would be better. Students could refer to the images as they read through the text. They could also compare the real pictures to the film version shown in The Italian.
I don't feel that my perspective would have changed had I viewed the slideshow after watching the movie and reading the book. If anything I feel that the slideshow reinforced what was going to be displayed within the book and movie. Personally the slideshow gave me a certain perspective and helped me understand what was going on and why. I had no idea of all the hardships that Italian immigrants faced when coming into this country.
ReplyDeleteI feel that the slideshow should still be continued to be shown prior to reading and watching the movie. It sort of sets the way and help students understand and sort of anticipate what's to come.
I agree it reinforces what was displayed in the book. I think it also brings to mind the scene where Pascal's father decides to leave America and to depart back to Italy saying it isn't any better here. It makes me wonder how bad it was in Italy that they
Deletecame here and dealt with these hardships especially for those who decided to stay. However, as for the order of given materials I liked the buildup.
I agree it definitely reinforces the book Son of Italy, and it didn't really change my perspective of the story. However, I feel if I had seen these prior to the film I think it would have significantly changed my perspective at that point. The film didn't do a very good job of portraying the hardships that these new immigrants encountered. (or at least I didn't think so) There was sense of it in the film but these slide shows, I felt drove the reality home.
DeleteI think "The Italian" focused primarily on the hardships of Italian immigrants in the sense of the vast differences between the homeland, and the new frontier of America. It does a premier job at pointing out the differences between Italian peasantry and American poverty, and the sets of problems that come along with each. "Son of Italy" also follows the hardships of an immigrant and the difficulties of assimilating and moving beyond the hardships of a laborer. "Son of Italy" is a success story of an immigrant, which sheds a bright light on all of the hardships that Pascal suffered. The slideshow really depicts the living conditions of these immigrants, and brings a greater understanding to what was previously illustrated in "The Italian" and "Son of Italy." If the slideshow was shown before, the film and book would have been viewed with a narrow mind about the terrible living conditions, and that would have been the focal point instead of the journey and narrative as a whole.
ReplyDeleteIn the future I suggest showing the slideshow directly after reading Son of Italy, to give an image to the struggles Pascal overcame. I would also suggest to show the slideshow before The Italian, to show the difference between actual images of the immigrants living conditions, and the portrayal of these immigrants in the media. This would flow more easily to a better understanding of experience vs. media portrayal.
Michael, that's a good observation. Having the slideshow presented between the book and the film really would be a good bridge.
DeleteI agree Mike, I think that the slideshow and Son of Italy go hand in hand and that separating them would lessen the impact of both texts. I also agree that the flow of experience vs. media portrayal is better enhanced with the slideshow and Son of Italy being presented next to each other.
DeleteI believe that the slideshow is a good addition to learn after reading Son of Italy as they both cover the hardships of Italians in America through two different mediums. I believe that the slideshow should not be taught earlier in the course as the beginning of the course helps set up the idea of how the dominant class viewed Italians. The cartoons, the two silent films and The Italian are all representations of how America sees Italian Americans. Then the dominant class' representation of Italians is broken down through the reading of Son of Italy and subsequently, the slideshow. This contrast could not have happened as effectively if the slideshow was at the beginning of the course as it would have mixed the categories up and made us look at that comparison before we read Son of Italy.
ReplyDeleteThat's a great explanation Joseph, I believe that is the sequence the profesor intended for us to see. I think it helps us develop the stories of who they are vs what the others say they are and the slideshow illustrates what is happening.
DeleteIf i had seen "The Way They Lived" before watching The Italian, I would've felt more offended and agitated at Paramount Pictures for releasing that film. I've never seen such graphic pictures as the images in the slideshow, particularly of the family sleeping on the grates. That's why I'm more upset at the The Italian, for the goofiness of Beppo, and the lack of empathy from the Corrigan character, knowing the real life conditions of the immigrant. In regards to Son of Italy however, that could have been read before or after the slideshow. It's a first hand account, making his truth easy to accept.
ReplyDeleteI think in the future, the slideshow should be the first thing shown, so the class has a real impression of the hardships, before they take on films and books. The photos are hard evidence, and with numerous examples that validate that this was widespread amongst many families.
James, I like your reasoning as to why seeing "The Way They Lived" before "The Italian" would've made a greater impact on you. This is actually similar to why I suggest showing the slideshow before the movie in my post as well. However I wonder if you think seeing the slideshow first would in a sense ruin the book "Son of Italy"? Since the slideshow focuses on the living conditions, do you think this would've been focused on more in the book rather than Pascal's experience as a whole? In either case I feel that "Son of Italy" and "The Way They Lived" go very well together, I just feel that the order could change the perspective a bit.
DeleteI was trying to find someone who would agree with me on that slides would be better be shown in the beginning. I think, they should be watched before other things to reflect the reality of what was going on.
DeleteI agree Anna. A picture is worth a thousand words. I would have never imagined from Pascal's description (although graphic) that Italian immigrants lived like this.
DeleteInteresting perspective; it was not something I had considered. I also think that The Italian did not give an expressive picture of the life conditions that immigrants had to endure. Their lifestyle in America was, I suspect, made to look much more comfortable than reality for the audience to accept it. (They had the luxury of owning a cradle for their baby!)
DeleteHaving watched The Italian or reading Son of Italy before looking at the slides gave me context and help me the connect events. I already developed an understanding of the times and the characters so looking at the conditions they lived in after having read about helped me confirmed what was already described in the reading. On the other hand if you had introduced the slideshows before, I think I would have felt bad for them but without really understanding the struggles they were going through.
ReplyDeleteI think that the timing of the slideshow in relation to "Son of Italy" and "The Italian" was fine the way it was. In terms of understanding the conditions that Italian immigrants lived in, I think that "Son of Italy" was probably the most realistic. It was, after all, an autobiography. While certain episodes in the text may have been fabricated, I don't think Pascal would be as likely to deny the conditions that he did live through in order to make something of himself as, say, photographers or movie producers.
ReplyDeleteThe movie and photographs were done with a particular agenda and message in mind, because in the early 1900s, photos and film were not easy to produce and required hours of setting up. The lack of spontaneity makes it far more probable that filmmakers and photographers staged their shots to emotionally manipulate their audience and sensationalize the real conditions of immigrant life.
I think that had I seen "The Way They Lived" before "The Italian" I would have been further convinced that the mise en scène was out of place / ahead of its time (per my "mini essay"). Beppo's apartment while small and rather bare did not look nearly as cramped, old or as horrid as the real images. I also think that while no less gruesome, the experiences Pascal describes in "Son of Italy", would have been anticipated and therefore less shocking if I would have seen the slideshow first.
ReplyDeleteI think that in order to keep an open mind and a fresh slate to develop one's own thoughts and ideas while watching the movie and book, it is best to show the slideshow afterward. I felt that the cartoons effectively conveyed how hard it was for the ItAms in general due to the prejudices and it is interesting to see after the film and book whether it conveyed the same illustration as images in the slideshow.
You bring up an interesting observation. After seeing the slideshow, I realize that the mise-en-scene was indeed "ahead of its time." I didn't notice it when I first saw the film. While reading the book, I was surprised to learn of all the horrors found within his various residences. That element of surprise/shock would have been taken away if I had seen the slideshow before. All the more reason to show the slideshow after the film and the book.
DeleteI believe if i had seen the slides before I have read "Son of Italy" it would give me the idea how everything looked back then. I would have a better images in of head of the places they lived in, clothes they wore etc. I am not saying that I had no idea how it looked like before, but certainly slides would bring more emotions into the reading.
ReplyDeleteI would suggest to introduce the slides right before "Son of Italy". Perfect place and time.
I see what you’re saying, but I don’t think that you need to see the slideshow first to get an image of what everything looked like. I think that by seeing the film first, we can get a basic idea of what people dressed like and how NYC would have looked at the time, etc. I would still argue that the slideshow be shown last, even if the film is shown prior to reading the book. The slideshow last that final shock factor that should be shown after the others.
DeleteMy perspective probably would not have change. I was touched by the individual experiences of Beppo and Pascal, but after watching the way they lived, the images I was deeply saddened. To watch people face such hardships and discrimination was very difficult for me. I had the same emotional response as when I see images of the African slave trade, except that Italian immigrants came voluntarily.
ReplyDeleteFor future classes, I suggest that the slideshow be shown first , so that there is a clearer comprehension of the video and book through these images
I absolutely agree that for future classes the slideshow should be shown first. Like you said Ursel, the students will understand the book and video better if they see the slideshow first. The slideshow would serve as an introduction, while the book and film will be like a continuation to what the professor is trying to let us understand about the harsh and poor living conditions of Italian Americans.
DeleteHad the slideshow been shown prior to The Italian or Son of Italy, I think it would've just informed me quicker but my perspective would not have changed. I just learned this semester and was not aware of how difficult life was for them. I was seeing it transpire page after page in The Italian (especially when he couldn't afford to buy the pasteurized milk for his sick child) and in Son of Italy (especially in the room scenario at the end) but this would've sent the same message, I believe, just quicker and so a quicker shock for me.
ReplyDeleteI think in the future, the slideshow may be introduced at the same point (or right after) but not sure if it should be introduced earlier than the Italian and Son of Italy because I liked the build up. As I turned the pages and it seemed to get more difficult with all the hardships that they went through, especially for someone like me who knew very little about this before the start of this semester, I think around the same point or right after is okay. I didn't know what to expect that much with the Italian or Son of Italy but if the slideshow had been introduced prior, then I would've. (I looked at the cartoons with the cramming into apartments as propaganda so it was different).
I definitely agree. For someone just being introduced to the Italian culture or the immigrants plight by this class, like i was, the build up is something that can be very important in terms of creating a full picture of their troubles. I had no idea they had such a hard time in America, and this build up really did start my education into their troubles in a very full well rounded way.
DeleteThe build up is a great point. It is important to keep the audience interested as time passes. I don't believe much people had any clue about what hardship the Italians were faced with, loving the new knowledge though.
DeleteIn my opinion, I would have had a better understanding of The Italian and Son of Italy had the slideshow been shown prior to the film and novel. On the other hand, the slideshow was a good way to wrap up both the film and book and made everything quite more understandable. However, if it had been shown before, I would've gotten a clearer picture of what the conditions were really like for Italian American immigrants. It's one thing to read about it and see a film that tries to accurately portray it, but to see actual images that showed what the conditions were really like made everything much more real. Of course, the book and film were both an accurate portrayal, however, I found the images to be much more heart wrenching and truer to what actually took place during that time period.
ReplyDeleteIn the future, I recommend that you introduce the slideshow before the book and film. By doing this, the students will be able to understand the conditions much more and imagine them better when they read the book and watch the film.
Watching the video's of the immigrants created a vivid picture of what it was like to live in America as an early immigrant. All I kept thinking is I don't know how they did it!! All the over crowding especially, added to the poverty is very hard to comprehend, even after seeing it. These people came over with hopes of a better life. It's hard to believe that what they encountered in America was better then their native lands. I now have an a greater appreciation for Pascal's father wanting to return home leaving his son behind. I think it would be very easy to become disenchanted living in those conditions.
ReplyDeleteIn the future I would recommend showing these films before reading Son Of Italy. I say this because it really paints a vivid picture of what Pascal went through and I believe it would help to visualize the story. I also think the films should be shown after The Italian film. The Italian, even with it's tragedies and hard times still seems to light hearted compared to how it was in America at this time. I think watching these films after would be a great way to lead into son of Italy.
If i viewed the slideshow before reading Son of Italy or watching The Italian, i would have had a very different perspective of the Italian immigrant's plight. I think that if i had seen the slideshow earlier, the images would not have had as large of an impact upon me as they did, because i have seen slideshows such as these regarding other immigrant groups in the past. Had i viewed the slideshow before reading the book or watching the film, i would not have been able to relate the pictures to the troubles that i read about, and created a deeper understanding of the problems Italian immigrants had, and now i feel a much deeper appreciation for their troubles.
ReplyDeleteI believe this is the best time to introduce this slideshow. From the first day we met, i had no idea of the troubles the Italian immigrants went through, and the gradual education, starting with the cartoons and culminating in this slideshow, has shown me, step by step, exactly how the immigrants were treated and the persecution they faced. Showing the slideshow now allows me to see the consequences and visualize the persecution i have read about and get a clear picture, whereas if i had seen it originally the slide would not have any information to be referenced in my mind. I thought this was a great time to share the slides, and believe in the future it would be a good idea as well.
If the slide shows were introduced right before the Son of Italy, i feel that it would have less appreciation than i do now. I would have probably see the pictures then dismiss of the images. The slides shown directly after reading the book allowed me to retain the information read by tying the images and the stories of Son of Italy back together.
ReplyDeleteIt was more effective to have it after reading the Son of Italy. I feel this was because after reading the Son of Italy, seeing the picture and hearing the song along with the images, help to paint a stronger realization with the lifestyle of those Italians in Son of Italy.